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tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - DK - 12:58 04-12-05

So I am rebuilding a mid-80s korean squier strat, it was my very first
guitar back in junior high. It is also my first real project
guitar...although I've been playing for many years, I'm kind of a
newbie when it comes to rebuilding guitars.

Now...I ordered some wilkinson EZ-LOK locking tuners, that are
designated as inline strat tuners (E29)...however, the shaft on the
wilkinsons is wider than the tuner holes in my head, so I can't put
them in. So my question is, should I drill out the holes to be wide
enough to accomodate the wilkinsons, or should I send them back and try
to find some tuners that will fit? The EZ-LOKs seem pretty nice,
especially for the $25 I paid for them, so I'd like to use them.

If I do drill, it is it safe to use a hand drill, or does that hole
really need to be done precisely with a drill press? Seems like it
shouldn't matter so much if the hole is perfect or not, but I don't
want to screw it up and have to buy a new neck.

Or, are there other choices of decent tuners out there that will fit
without any mods to the hole?

Please advise, alt.guitar-

DK
Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Keith Adams - 14:10 04-12-05

The holes can be enlarged with a hand held drill motor no problem but
you've got to be careful .Large drill bits have large aggresive flutes
on them and tend to want to pull the drill bit into the hole very
quickly. This can tear and splinter the wood on the other side of the
hole when the bit goes through. You've got to go through slowly and be
prepared to counteract the bits pull by not letting it grab. You can
drill from both directions using progressively larger bits but dont
drill all the way through on the first pass and from one side only.
The best way is to get a hole reamer thats turned by hand . It can be
slow but its safe. Another way is to use a tapered drill bit on your
drill that has teeth on it like a wood rasp. I've used all of these
things seperately and in conjunction with each other depending on how
big the hole had to be enlarged.

"DK" <flavor.engine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133719128.088577.24690@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So I am rebuilding a mid-80s korean squier strat, it was my very first
guitar back in junior high. It is also my first real project
guitar...although I've been playing for many years, I'm kind of a
newbie when it comes to rebuilding guitars.

Now...I ordered some wilkinson EZ-LOK locking tuners, that are
designated as inline strat tuners (E29)...however, the shaft on the
wilkinsons is wider than the tuner holes in my head, so I can't put
them in. So my question is, should I drill out the holes to be wide
enough to accomodate the wilkinsons, or should I send them back and try
to find some tuners that will fit? The EZ-LOKs seem pretty nice,
especially for the $25 I paid for them, so I'd like to use them.

If I do drill, it is it safe to use a hand drill, or does that hole
really need to be done precisely with a drill press? Seems like it
shouldn't matter so much if the hole is perfect or not, but I don't
want to screw it up and have to buy a new neck.

Or, are there other choices of decent tuners out there that will fit
without any mods to the hole?

Please advise, alt.guitar-

DK
Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - DeeAa - 14:54 04-12-05

"Keith Adams" <keithadams@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HaHkf.1153$pE4.648@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> The best way is to get a hole reamer thats turned by hand . It can be
> slow but its safe. Another way is to use a tapered drill bit on your
> drill that has teeth on it like a wood rasp. I've used all of these
> things seperately and in conjunction with each other depending on how
> big the hole had to be enlarged.
>
Keith knows this stuff, but I wondered how much is the difference, maybe it
would be safe&fast enough just to find a suitable pen or a Magic Marker etc.
and wrap coarse sandpaper over it, just sand 'em a little bigger...if the
difference is very small there would be very little chance of things going
wrong and coarse sandpaper eats wood surprisingly effectively. One
millimetre or so, should be no problem.
Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Dave Van - 15:13 04-12-05

DeeAa wrote:
> "Keith Adams" <keithadams@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:HaHkf.1153$pE4.648@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
>>The best way is to get a hole reamer thats turned by hand . It can be
>>slow but its safe. Another way is to use a tapered drill bit on your
>>drill that has teeth on it like a wood rasp. I've used all of these
>>things seperately and in conjunction with each other depending on how
>>big the hole had to be enlarged.
>>
>
> Keith knows this stuff, but I wondered how much is the difference, maybe it
> would be safe&fast enough just to find a suitable pen or a Magic Marker etc.
> and wrap coarse sandpaper over it, just sand 'em a little bigger...if the
> difference is very small there would be very little chance of things going
> wrong and coarse sandpaper eats wood surprisingly effectively. One
> millimetre or so, should be no problem.
>
>
>


Hmmmmmm.... You could probably do it that way. Or with a rat tail file.
But I suspect the difference is going from 0.375" to 0.39" (10mm)
which is 0.015" in diameter. Sometimes very small differences are
better addressed with precise hardware such as a tapered ream or drill.

Whether one uses a ream or a drill, do half of the work from each side
of the hole so that both sides taper slightly to the center rather than
the whole taper going from front to back or vice-versa.

DV
Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Patrick Keenan - 15:25 04-12-05

"DK" <flavor.engine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133719128.088577.24690@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So I am rebuilding a mid-80s korean squier strat, it was my very first
> guitar back in junior high. It is also my first real project
> guitar...although I've been playing for many years, I'm kind of a
> newbie when it comes to rebuilding guitars.
>
> Now...I ordered some wilkinson EZ-LOK locking tuners, that are
> designated as inline strat tuners (E29)...however, the shaft on the
> wilkinsons is wider than the tuner holes in my head, so I can't put
> them in. So my question is, should I drill out the holes to be wide
> enough to accomodate the wilkinsons, or should I send them back and try
> to find some tuners that will fit? The EZ-LOKs seem pretty nice,
> especially for the $25 I paid for them, so I'd like to use them.
>
> If I do drill,

It's probably better to ream.

> it is it safe to use a hand drill,

Generally, it is not safe to do this without seriously secure clamping.

The issue is that the drill bit *will* bind and if you're using a power
drill, will spin the work or crack the headstock. Both of these are easy
events to trigger and can do a lot of damage.

> or does that hole
> really need to be done precisely with a drill press?

A drill press will help, for two reasons: first, the drill will not wander
off-axis, and second, you will have a table to clamp the work securely to.
Using a drill press, you can manually spin the chuck with the bit in and
lowered to help locate the work.

Do *not* try to simply hold the neck while you use the press. The bit will
bind and the headstock will climb right up the bit till it hits the chuck,
and then start spinning till it hits something - either you or the press
support. You must clamp it securely.

> Seems like it
> shouldn't matter so much if the hole is perfect or not, but I don't
> want to screw it up and have to buy a new neck.

What's often done for aftermarket tuners is to use a reamer built for the
purpose. These are often sold as violin tools.

> Or, are there other choices of decent tuners out there that will fit
> without any mods to the hole?

Depends on the kind of tuners they are. If they are the Kluson style (with
a bushing that pushes on from the front), just about anything other than
vintage reproductions is going to require enlarging the holes.

HTH
-pk

> Please advise, alt.guitar-
>
> DK
>



Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Keith Adams - 15:31 04-12-05

You guys are correct and thanks for the kind remark DeeAa. Depending
on the tuner I've seen some where the headstock hole had to be enlarged
by quite a bit. Actually to the point where I said to myself ho
ly shit. Whats going on here and I dont remember ever having to
ream one out that far. One instance was when using locking Grovers
Where three on a strip had been. The Grovers need a big hole for their
shaft size. A little larger than a 1/2 "or 10mm drill bit. The
existing hole was only about 3/8 ". It can be done but it would be
time consuming with a rat tail file or sand paper. Also when enlarging
that much you can start getting out of round. Not critical but its good
to stay as round as possible.

"DK" <flavor.engine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133719128.088577.24690@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
So I am rebuilding a mid-80s korean squier strat, it was my very first
guitar back in junior high. It is also my first real project
guitar...although I've been playing for many years, I'm kind of a
newbie when it comes to rebuilding guitars.

Now...I ordered some wilkinson EZ-LOK locking tuners, that are
designated as inline strat tuners (E29)...however, the shaft on the
wilkinsons is wider than the tuner holes in my head, so I can't put
them in. So my question is, should I drill out the holes to be wide
enough to accomodate the wilkinsons, or should I send them back and try
to find some tuners that will fit? The EZ-LOKs seem pretty nice,
especially for the $25 I paid for them, so I'd like to use them.

If I do drill, it is it safe to use a hand drill, or does that hole
really need to be done precisely with a drill press? Seems like it
shouldn't matter so much if the hole is perfect or not, but I don't
want to screw it up and have to buy a new neck.

Or, are there other choices of decent tuners out there that will fit
without any mods to the hole?

Please advise, alt.guitar-

DK
Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Grumpy - 18:03 04-12-05

"Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote in
news:2hIkf.376$kt5.64964@news20.bellglobal.com:

> What's often done for aftermarket tuners is to use a reamer built for
> the purpose. These are often sold as violin tools.
>
>

Based on my experience, this is the way to go --you don't have to worry
about getting your spacing correct, and the reamer will allow you to
proceed slowly and safely.

It doesn't take much to screw up drilling out the holes --even with a
drill press. Because you still have to reposition the neck for each hole,
and all it takes is a millimeter to throw everything off...won't really
hurt the playability, but it'll look like crap.

Frankly, I'd put the EZ-loks aside for a guitar they'll fit on and buy a
set of locking tuners that will directly retrofit your guitar. Gotoh
makes some nice looking vintage style locking tuners. Sure, it's a few
bucks more, but you won't have to drill into your guitar.

Basically, you can spend the extra bucks on a reamer, or on the proper
tuners for your guitar, your choice.
Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Patrick Keenan - 19:33 04-12-05

"Grumpy" <snowwhite'place@disney.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97232E47C19dizorz@193.252.117.183... /> > "Patrick Keenan" <test@dev.null> wrote in
> news:2hIkf.376$kt5.64964@news20.bellglobal.com:
>
>> What's often done for aftermarket tuners is to use a reamer built for
>> the purpose. These are often sold as violin tools.
>>
>>
>
> Based on my experience, this is the way to go --you don't have to worry
> about getting your spacing correct, and the reamer will allow you to
> proceed slowly and safely.
>
> It doesn't take much to screw up drilling out the holes --even with a
> drill press. Because you still have to reposition the neck for each hole,
> and all it takes is a millimeter to throw everything off...won't really
> hurt the playability, but it'll look like crap.

I agree that out-of-line tuners seriously detract from the visual okayness
of any instrument.

With a drill press, it is possible to bring the bit down to the work, with
the work relatively unclamped, then manually spin the bit backwards to help
locate the work relative to the bit. Finally the work is solidly clamped,
the press started, and the bit lowered slowly, watching that the bit is
on-center. If it shows signs of not being so, stop and fix it.

In all cases it's a really good idea to have a backing board against the
work, to keep the back of the headstock from splintering as the bit goes
through.

I will note that this is all *much* harder to do on a gibson-style guitar
with a set neck and an angled-back headstock.

>
> Frankly, I'd put the EZ-loks aside for a guitar they'll fit on and buy a
> set of locking tuners that will directly retrofit your guitar. Gotoh
> makes some nice looking vintage style locking tuners. Sure, it's a few
> bucks more, but you won't have to drill into your guitar.

I have to agree, I have long been a fan of Gotoh products. They are well
made, often the superior product, and do the job properly.

> Basically, you can spend the extra bucks on a reamer, or on the proper
> tuners for your guitar, your choice.

Or, pay someone who already has the tools and experience to do the job for
you.

For reference, here are some examples of appropriate reamers. Note that
you must buy one that has the diameter you need! This may be sold as a
cello tool.

http://www.metmusic.com/store/?action=viewproduct&ProductID=11320904841010491

http://www.quinnviolins.com/qv_pegreamersandshapers.shtml

http://www.musikit.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=violream&Category_Code=Tunpin

For further reference, here's another style of much more available and
affordable reamer:
http://www.mutr.co.uk/prodDetail.aspx?prodID=495

This style of reamer is fully fluted, and it is possible to wind up with a
star-shaped hole.



-pk



Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Tony Done - 22:48 04-12-05


"Dave Van" <dave@brickNOSPAMgarage.com> wrote in message
news:N5Ikf.9760$wf.5711@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> DeeAa wrote:
>> "Keith Adams" <keithadams@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:HaHkf.1153$pE4.648@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>>>The best way is to get a hole reamer thats turned by hand . It can be
>>>slow but its safe. Another way is to use a tapered drill bit on your
>>>drill that has teeth on it like a wood rasp. I've used all of these
>>>things seperately and in conjunction with each other depending on how
>>>big the hole had to be enlarged.
>>>
>>
>> Keith knows this stuff, but I wondered how much is the difference, maybe
>> it would be safe&fast enough just to find a suitable pen or a Magic
>> Marker etc. and wrap coarse sandpaper over it, just sand 'em a little
>> bigger...if the difference is very small there would be very little
>> chance of things going wrong and coarse sandpaper eats wood surprisingly
>> effectively. One millimetre or so, should be no problem.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Hmmmmmm.... You could probably do it that way. Or with a rat tail file.
> But I suspect the difference is going from 0.375" to 0.39" (10mm) which is
> 0.015" in diameter. Sometimes very small differences are better addressed
> with precise hardware such as a tapered ream or drill.
>
> Whether one uses a ream or a drill, do half of the work from each side of
> the hole so that both sides taper slightly to the center rather than the
> whole taper going from front to back or vice-versa.
>
> DV

My experience is that small differences are harder to deal with than big
ones if you don't have the work and the drill firmly anchored, because of
the "snatching" problem. For a difference as small as you suggest, I would
likely use a rat tail file, held in a pair of Vise Grips for leverage. They
tend to wind themselves in and jam if you go clockwise, and work slower but
safer in the anticlockwise direction.

Tony D



Re: tuning machine question - to drill, or not to drill? - Steve - 00:43 05-12-05

I STRONGLY recommend against using a drill bit. Get a Forstner bit of
the appropriate size, and use a drill press. And clamp the headstock
firmly to the drill press table (using some cork to pad the wood so you
don't damage it). And cut part way thru from one side, then turn the
headstock over and cut from the other side.

Another possibility: A Dremel tool with a carving bit or 1/4" diameter
sanding drum.

If you don't have a drill press or the Dremel, use a rat-tail file or
reamer as suggested by others who have posted responses--it's much safer.

--Steve

DK wrote:
> So I am rebuilding a mid-80s korean squier strat, it was my very first
> guitar back in junior high. It is also my first real project
> guitar...although I've been playing for many years, I'm kind of a
> newbie when it comes to rebuilding guitars.
>
> Now...I ordered some wilkinson EZ-LOK locking tuners, that are
> designated as inline strat tuners (E29)...however, the shaft on the
> wilkinsons is wider than the tuner holes in my head, so I can't put
> them in. So my question is, should I drill out the holes to be wide
> enough to accomodate the wilkinsons, or should I send them back and try
> to find some tuners that will fit? The EZ-LOKs seem pretty nice,
> especially for the $25 I paid for them, so I'd like to use them.
>
> If I do drill, it is it safe to use a hand drill, or does that hole
> really need to be done precisely with a drill press? Seems like it
> shouldn't matter so much if the hole is perfect or not, but I don't
> want to screw it up and have to buy a new neck.
>
> Or, are there other choices of decent tuners out there that will fit
> without any mods to the hole?
>
> Please advise, alt.guitar-
>
> DK
>

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