Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install...

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Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Jon Pickens - 18:11 28-11-05

Hi,

I've been going through the process of tweaking my old Kramer Focus
3000. I love the guitar, it's got a great feeling neck and a tight
neck joint--great tone. However the strings aren't lined up properly.
It appears that when the locking nut was installed at the factory the
holes were drilled off-center about 1-1.5mm. As a result, the low E
string is twice the distance from the edge of the fretboard as the high
E is.

Should I drill, dowl, then redrill? I've seen advertised some Floyd
locking nut that bolt in from the top. Would using one of those
provide the same stability while not requiring so much of the wood to
be removed under the nut?

Thanks,

~jp

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Rookie - 18:39 28-11-05

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Jon Pickens - 19:22 28-11-05

You can tell while playing...

I'm competent enough with tools to make it happen, whatever "it" is...

It wouldn't bother me if it was just cosmetic. Most of my guitars
aren't pretty--they just work really good for me :-)

~jp

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Sacramento Dave - 21:53 28-11-05

"Jon Pickens" <jonrpick@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133223726.455311.255820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You can tell while playing...
>
> I'm competent enough with tools to make it happen, whatever "it" is...
>
> It wouldn't bother me if it was just cosmetic. Most of my guitars
> aren't pretty--they just work really good for me :-)
>
> ~jp
>
It sounds like you made a decision already to do it.

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Keith Adams - 22:00 28-11-05

Can you take the nut off and redrill it so as to have some side to side
play? In other words. If you elongate the holes the screws/bolts go
through then you can slide the nut the direction you need without
doweling the neck. It will still tighten the nut down plenty tight
because no force is put on it from side to side. Just straight down
"Jon Pickens" <jonrpick@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133219514.734037.188250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hi,

I've been going through the process of tweaking my old Kramer Focus
3000. I love the guitar, it's got a great feeling neck and a tight
neck joint--great tone. However the strings aren't lined up properly.
It appears that when the locking nut was installed at the factory the
holes were drilled off-center about 1-1.5mm. As a result, the low E
string is twice the distance from the edge of the fretboard as the high
E is.

Should I drill, dowl, then redrill? I've seen advertised some Floyd
locking nut that bolt in from the top. Would using one of those
provide the same stability while not requiring so much of the wood to
be removed under the nut?

Thanks,

~jp

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Mo - 03:12 29-11-05

"Jon Pickens" <jonrpick@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1133219514.734037.188250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Hi,
>
> I've been going through the process of tweaking my old Kramer Focus
> 3000. I love the guitar, it's got a great feeling neck and a tight
> neck joint--great tone. However the strings aren't lined up properly.
> It appears that when the locking nut was installed at the factory the
> holes were drilled off-center about 1-1.5mm. As a result, the low E
> string is twice the distance from the edge of the fretboard as the
high
> E is.
>
> Should I drill, dowl, then redrill? I've seen advertised some Floyd
> locking nut that bolt in from the top. Would using one of those
> provide the same stability while not requiring so much of the wood to
> be removed under the nut?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ~jp
>

I'd think drilling and redrilling will fragilize the neck too much,
especially using dowels, which are usually pretty soft wood

Instead of attacking the neck itself I'd try looking at the nut itself:

Example one--there's some play in the screw holes on the nut and you
might be able to loosen the screws, shift the nut to where it belongs,
and screw it back down.

Example two--you can introduce a bit of play in the screw holes (file
the edges), then shift the nut and screw it back down.

Example three: You could replace the nut with a roller nut and replace
your tuners with locking tuners. The roller nut will give the strings
the play they need to line up straight.

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Cyberserf - 08:29 29-11-05

> I'd think drilling and redrilling will fragilize the neck too much,
> especially using dowels, which are usually pretty soft wood
>
> Instead of attacking the neck itself I'd try looking at the nut itself:
>
> Example one--there's some play in the screw holes on the nut and you
> might be able to loosen the screws, shift the nut to where it belongs,
> and screw it back down.
>
> Example two--you can introduce a bit of play in the screw holes (file
> the edges), then shift the nut and screw it back down.
>
> Example three: You could replace the nut with a roller nut and replace
> your tuners with locking tuners. The roller nut will give the strings
> the play they need to line up straight.

I'm going to second everything Mo said here and add, unless it is
affecting the intonation, it would be easier to add a shim to hide the
blemish, but 1.5mm is pretty obscene and it likely does have an impact
on your notes...but can you fix it at the saddle? If not, read on...

If the manufacturer or store you got it from doesn't accept some
responsibility and you can't find a replacement nut that provides a
better fit. You may want to consider taking it to someone with the
proper equipment, skill and knowledge...lets face it, if you have to
ask, then you may not be the best candidate for the job.

However, if you absolutely have to do something with what you have and
insist on being a DYI type of guy, here's what I would do if all else
had failed and it meant salvaging the playability of the instrument.
(Bet you're glad my preacher mode is finally off)

First, I would remove the nut and carefully fill the off axis hole with
RayCrete or another suitable epoxy. Now go to bed and don't come back
for 24hrs. Fast foward. Carefully measure and mark the center of the
new hole. With the neck very carefully supported, redrill the screw
hole with an appropriately sized drill bit in a solid drill press. Do
not drill deeper than required by the screw and do not mess with the
angle (match the other unfilled hole to get this one right, there
should be a slight break back towards the headstock created by the nut
seat..the holes sometimes follow this angle).

Note: When replacing the nut, fasten each screw down evenly...don't
tighten one down, then the other...this really stresses the wall of the
holes.

Keep in mind, this area of the neck is typically a weak point where the
truss rod often rides underneath the nut. Many makers will place an
insert with thinner screws on the nut to help address this issue. If
this is the case, you'll have to figure out how to get the insert out
without mangling the seat so you can fill it and redrill a hole to
accept it back in the proper spot. Many just screw out, take your time
and don't forget to keep your neck properly supported when you're
working on it.

When working with the epoxy around an instrument, make sure you cover
the headstock and neck...in an ideal world the only part exposed would
be the part that you want filled with epoxy. Even so, keep a wet cloth
nearby for accidents.

This is not a particularly difficult repair, but do keep in mind that
you will only get better with practice and you really do need the right
tools to do a decent job...a hand drill in this application is a
potential recipe for disaster...best avoid the avoidable and be
prepared for the rest.

Cheers, CS

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Jon Pickens - 11:12 29-11-05

I like the epoxy idea, and technically, the epoxy should harden to be
harder and stronger than the actual wood. If doweling was the
solution, I would look for a very hard wood such as Oak or something...

After some thought, here's what I've come up with. I'm thinking about
covering the nut seat with masking tape. This would allow me to inject
the holes with epoxy from the rear of the neck, and slightly overfill
the holes. I could then sand off the extra to make it flush. The
original holes would just be 2 spots where the epoxy was used to fill.

I'd then remove the tape from the front of the neck to reveal a
perfectly flat and filled area where the screw holes had once been.

Again, I'd prefer to replace the existing locking nut with the type
that screws down from the top, rather than bolted through the back of
the neck. If I'm correct with my measurement, the new screw holes
would be partially, or even primarily in the epoxy, not the wood of the
neck.

Here's what I'm talking about for anyone unfamiliar with front/top
mount locking nuts:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gold-Locking-Nut-42mm-Front-Mount-for-Strat-NEW_W0QQitemZ7369096629QQcategoryZ38082QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's the standard rear/back mounting style:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gold-Locking-Nut-43mm-Rear-Mount-for-Strat-NEW_W0QQitemZ7368911078QQcategoryZ38082QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Notice the different mounting screw types in the two auctions.

Opinions...?

~jp

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Jon Pickens - 11:14 29-11-05

I tried loosening and scooting the nut over. There was very little
play. Not enough to positively afffect the situation.

I don't want to remove any more wood. The act of installing the
locking nut in the first place weakens that area of the neck more than
I'm comfortable with.

~jp

Re: Suggestions for fixing a botched locking nut install... - Jon Pickens - 11:17 29-11-05

Examples 1 and 2 are unlikely. I tried shifting the nut, but there's
nowhere near enough play to make that happen. I also don't want to
remove more wood.

Situation #3 would work, as using a completely different kind of nut
would allow it to be lined up whichever way I like. But I really don't
want to spend money on a new set of tuners, which would more than like
also require at least a slight drilling of the headstock to get them
mounted.

Thanks for the ideas though...

~jp

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