clipping by effects pedals? - Grant W. Petty - 20:53 26-11-05
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My Fulldrive2 has a comp cut setting that, when engaged by pulling out the
volume pot, boosts the overall signal level quite a bit. I like the boost
when driving my tube amp, but I sometimes think I'm hearing some clipping,
possibly in my Boss EQ and reverb/delay pedals (don't remember the model
numbers offhand) which are between the FD2 and the amp.
My question: How hard can you boost the signal fed to a typical digital
(e.g., reverb) or analog (e.g., EQ) effect pedal before you risk clipping
or other distortion? This is something I've rarely if ever seen discussed
wrt to effects chains.
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - oasysco - 22:15 26-11-05
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That's an excellent question. I'll be monitoring this thread for
answers myself.
Greg
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - DeeAa - 01:58 27-11-05
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"Grant W. Petty" <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.60.0511261947440.23711@cloud.aos.wisc.edu...
>
> My Fulldrive2 has a comp cut setting that, when engaged by pulling out the
> volume pot, boosts the overall signal level quite a bit. I like the boost
> when driving my tube amp, but I sometimes think I'm hearing some clipping,
> possibly in my Boss EQ and reverb/delay pedals (don't remember the model
> numbers offhand) which are between the FD2 and the amp.
>
> My question: How hard can you boost the signal fed to a typical digital
> (e.g., reverb) or analog (e.g., EQ) effect pedal before you risk clipping
> or other distortion? This is something I've rarely if ever seen discussed
> wrt to effects chains.
>
I've never managed to do that so I guess it's a LOT in case of analog ones
and much less when going digital. I have had an EMG onboard preamp on many
of my guitars - not the active PU's but a powerful adustable amp capable of
up to +20db.
I've had it roughly one fifth up, which has been good to punch normal tube
amps like Fender Twin etc. onto a slight overdrive/give a quite punchy
sound, but an SS amp such as Tech 21 amps, which I really like too, have
been driven way overboard into mush territory. So it's been a lotta boost.
But I've never managed to overdrive any analog FX pedals with it. At least
Boss OD's, Morley wah and Boss chorus seem to be able to take in really high
levels no problem.
I wouldn't claim to know for sure, but based on my experience any digital fx
pedals such as reverbs etc. should be much easier to overload and clip,
while the analog ones take lots of punishment indeed; I'm guessing +10db or
even more is still OK.
The same applies to rack gear; my Boss CE-200 analog chorus 19" doesn't clip
at all even when in deep red, while my digital Boss multifx clips very
sharply at some point even after a change of, say, 4-5db.
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - WingedEelFingerling - 11:06 27-11-05
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The Fulldrive in comp cut mode has a nasty sounding clipping of its own
- maybe that's what you're hearing?
On the other hand, it is quite possible to overload the input of
another pedal, depending on the design. (I have a Boss delay that's
easy to overload - a Les Paul w/ heavy pick will do it....)
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - Grant W. Petty - 12:31 27-11-05
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, WingedEelFingerling wrote:
> The Fulldrive in comp cut mode has a nasty sounding clipping of its own
> - maybe that's what you're hearing?
Huh. That's the first I've heard that. What does the clipping sound like?
I've sometimes noticed an unmusical clipping (kind of a short barking
sound) on the pick attack when using my bridge HB, even when the gain on
the FD2 isn't up so high, but I never figured out where it was coming from.
Wondering now whether it's what you described.
> On the other hand, it is quite possible to overload the input of
> another pedal, depending on the design. (I have a Boss delay that's
> easy to overload - a Les Paul w/ heavy pick will do it....)
What are the exact symptoms? Does it happen even when the delay is
disengaged? My reverb/delay unit is a Boss (can't remember the exact model
number, but I think it's the "current" model).
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - Odin - 13:06 27-11-05
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"WingedEelFingerling" <not@me.too> wrote in message
> The Fulldrive in comp cut mode has a nasty sounding clipping of its own
> - maybe that's what you're hearing?
That's odd because the comp cut feature removes the clipping circuit from
the signal path in the FD2.
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - PRS GEEK - 14:22 27-11-05
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"Grant W. Petty" <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.60.0511271124370.975@cloud.aos.wisc.edu...
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, WingedEelFingerling wrote:
>
>> The Fulldrive in comp cut mode has a nasty sounding clipping of its own
>> - maybe that's what you're hearing?
>
> Huh. That's the first I've heard that. What does the clipping sound
> like?
Man... Mine's never sounded bad at all..
> I've sometimes noticed an unmusical clipping (kind of a short barking
> sound) on the pick attack when using my bridge HB, even when the gain on
> the FD2 isn't up so high, but I never figured out where it was coming
> from. Wondering now whether it's what you described.
Where is the FD in your pedal chain? What's before it and what's after it.
I've never heard my FD II in non comp mode make a barking sound. I guess it
*could* overload your amp input depending on how much headroom is left on
the input. Are you using a low wattage amp? EL 84's maybe???
I've used my FDII on non comp mode at a blues jam with my Vox AC 15 RI (EL
84's) and the amp was up almost all the way. I never heard it bark. I just
heard additional input compression. There's a point where some amps will
succumb to too much input, but I've only experienced that with a 100 watt
Marshall and a THD Hot Plate. Still no barking, quite another effect. Super
compressed with nary an ounce of headroom left. It's like the power tubes
are filled up and there's nuttin left.
>> On the other hand, it is quite possible to overload the input of
>> another pedal, depending on the design. (I have a Boss delay that's
>> easy to overload - a Les Paul w/ heavy pick will do it....)
Agreed... That's why I put delay in the loop and call it a day. If it's a
time based effect, the loop is a much more pleasant place for them to be. I
don't want my delays being down graded from a dirt box input. YMMV.
Jeff
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - Grant W. Petty - 17:40 27-11-05
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, PRS GEEK wrote:
>> I've sometimes noticed an unmusical clipping (kind of a short barking
>> sound) on the pick attack when using my bridge HB, even when the gain on
>> the FD2 isn't up so high, but I never figured out where it was coming
>> from. Wondering now whether it's what you described.
>
> Where is the FD in your pedal chain? What's before it and what's after it.
compressor/sustainer -> FD2 -> EQ -> reverb/delay
> I've never heard my FD II in non comp mode make a barking sound. I guess it
> *could* overload your amp input depending on how much headroom is left on
> the input. Are you using a low wattage amp? EL 84's maybe???
Gibson Goldtone GA-15RV class A - 15W (pentode mode) or 8W (triode mode). I
was thinking I've got EL 34's, but I'm not a tube guru so I'm not sure I
can trust my memory. Preamp is two 12AX7s.
The "barking" I hear doesn't have anything to do with amp volume (there's
no separate master and preamp gain knobs), and I get it with another amp
too. So it's either in the pickup itself or in the signal path. At one
point I thought it might be from having the PU too close to the strings,
but even with it backed way off, I still get it if I pick hard enough.
> Agreed... That's why I put delay in the loop and call it a day. If it's a
> time based effect, the loop is a much more pleasant place for them to be. I
> don't want my delays being down graded from a dirt box input. YMMV.
No fx loop on my amp, so time-based effects either have to go before the
amp or after the mic.
- Grant
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? -
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WingedEelFingerling wrote:
> The Fulldrive in comp cut mode has a nasty sounding clipping of its own
> - maybe that's what you're hearing?
>
> On the other hand, it is quite possible to overload the input of
> another pedal, depending on the design. (I have a Boss delay that's
> easy to overload - a Les Paul w/ heavy pick will do it....)
Why in the world would someone want to overload the input to a delay
pedal ?
And, my FD2 pedal does not sound 'nasty' with comp cut engaged ?
Perhaps
yours is defective.
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Re: clipping by effects pedals? - RichCI - 12:26 28-11-05
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Grant W. Petty wrote:
> My Fulldrive2 has a comp cut setting that, when engaged by pulling out the
> volume pot, boosts the overall signal level quite a bit. I like the boost
> when driving my tube amp, but I sometimes think I'm hearing some clipping,
> possibly in my Boss EQ and reverb/delay pedals (don't remember the model
> numbers offhand) which are between the FD2 and the amp.
>
> My question: How hard can you boost the signal fed to a typical digital
> (e.g., reverb) or analog (e.g., EQ) effect pedal before you risk clipping
> or other distortion? This is something I've rarely if ever seen discussed
> wrt to effects chains.
I don't know the answer to your question, but what I do to avoid this
happening is run a clean boost as the last effect in my chain. This
allows me to get more volume and/or overdrive out of my amp without
having to worry about overdriving any other pedals.
Chief_Billy@hotmail.com wrote:
> WingedEelFingerling wrote:
> > The Fulldrive in comp cut mode has a nasty sounding clipping of its own
> > - maybe that's what you're hearing?
> >
> > On the other hand, it is quite possible to overload the input of
> > another pedal, depending on the design. (I have a Boss delay that's
> > easy to overload - a Les Paul w/ heavy pick will do it....)
>
> Why in the world would someone want to overload the input to a delay
> pedal ?
>
> And, my FD2 pedal does not sound 'nasty' with comp cut engaged ?
> Perhaps
> yours is defective.
One man's nasty is another man's sonic bliss.
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