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Guitar Discussions -> Time for another poweramp - which?
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Time for another poweramp - which? - DeeAa - 03:09 13-11-05
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Any suggestions?
I have this Marshall JMP-1 based rig, and I've used various SS poweramps
with it and tried a few tube pwramps as well. Currently I have a 20W
Marshall SS head for a poweramp, and I like the sound control I get with it,
but the reliability is crap; you know, bad pots, hard to keep it sounding
the same, and it even dies totally after an hour or so of playing
(overheats?). Well I paid like 50 bucks for it so I'll just toss it in the
dumpster and curse spending money on such badly functioning piece of gear (I
once had a MOSFET head that did the same - are all old Marshall SS amps this
crappy?)
But anyway. Time to get a new poweramp. I'd very much like some degree of
control, i.e. gain and master volume and/or at least some basic tone or
voicings settings. Tube or SS, doens't matter, as long as it is solid and
trustworthy and can drive a 4x10 cab. Preferably not too huge, but also need
not be very powerful, no live gigging in sight. Not very expensive either,
if possible.
Recently I've tried a used Peavey 60W tube poweramp, but didn't like it any;
too little control and had too 'vintage' round and sucky tube sound like the
input impedance was wrong or something. I'd like more clarity - been
basically very happy with SS power stages so far. The peavy was also like 3
units and 20kg. Also I've played through my friend's ancient VOX all-tube
head and that was actually very very very good, bright but warm-punchy even
with just the VOX and the 4x10, but HUGE and heavy and loud and he wouldn't
sell it.
Also one possibility would be to scrap the 4x10 even though I love the cab
(I've modded it a bit, it was far too projective and harsh to start with)
and get a small combo amp to be used with the JMP-1 as an extra preamp when
needed. Just tested this forget what it was a tiny new Fender with a single
12", all tube job, which had an absolutely great, nice jazz round sound to
it but not much headroom and it was good for just two sounds, jazz
almost-driven and a bit mushy basic rock power guitar (but by then too loud
even if just 15W). Besides, it cost like 700 or so - d**n pricey for a tiny
backpacker like that! Probably would be good for recording, but don't like
the boxy sound of the single cone when playing at home.
So what are the options really? I've narrowed it down to three so far:
Marshall 20/20 - pros are I hear it's pretty bright and articulate for a
tube job, and nice size and power
- cons are it's bloody expensive too and not much control AND I hear it
needs a stereo cab so I'd have to mod my cab too first. Some people have
also reported not liking it at all sonically and having changed to other
types, even a valvestate version and been happier. (Valvestate rack units
are not sold anymore it seems, might consider one otherwise)
Velocity 100 - it's SS but apparently has rave reviews for its sound AND
it's cheep & only single rack space
- cons: no control whatsoever except volume, haven't heard one.
Crate CP150 Powerblock - new 'kid' on the block - very interesting, small
and has all the control I might need, but no idea how it sounds or how it's
built - has had pretty mixed reviews. VERY cheap though.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/search/detail/base_pid/487829?src=HC007
That page has some pretty promising sound clips.
An older, used poweramp? (I still wonder if the peavey had bad tubes or
something), but any suggestions?
I'll be ordering one today or tomorrow, so if you have any suggestions,
please haste!
(I hate to wait any when I get the urge to get new gear I gotta get it like
*yesterday or the day before that :-)
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - The Chris - 10:09 13-11-05
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"DeeAa" <deeaa@poist.mun.tast.kaik.dnainternet.net> wrote in
news:4376f4b5$0$23968$9b536df3@news.fv.fi:
> Any suggestions?
>
> I have this Marshall JMP-1 based rig, and I've used various SS
> poweramps with it and tried a few tube pwramps as well. Currently I
> have a 20W Marshall SS head for a poweramp, and I like the sound
> control I get with it, but the reliability is crap; you know, bad
> pots, hard to keep it sounding the same, and it even dies totally
> after an hour or so of playing (overheats?). Well I paid like 50 bucks
> for it so I'll just toss it in the dumpster and curse spending money
> on such badly functioning piece of gear (I once had a MOSFET head that
> did the same - are all old Marshall SS amps this crappy?)
>
> But anyway. Time to get a new poweramp. I'd very much like some degree
> of control, i.e. gain and master volume and/or at least some basic
> tone or voicings settings. Tube or SS, doens't matter, as long as it
> is solid and trustworthy and can drive a 4x10 cab. Preferably not too
> huge, but also need not be very powerful, no live gigging in sight.
> Not very expensive either, if possible.
>
> Recently I've tried a used Peavey 60W tube poweramp, but didn't like
> it any; too little control and had too 'vintage' round and sucky tube
> sound like the input impedance was wrong or something. I'd like more
> clarity - been basically very happy with SS power stages so far. The
> peavy was also like 3 units and 20kg. Also I've played through my
> friend's ancient VOX all-tube head and that was actually very very
> very good, bright but warm-punchy even with just the VOX and the 4x10,
> but HUGE and heavy and loud and he wouldn't sell it.
>
> Also one possibility would be to scrap the 4x10 even though I love the
> cab (I've modded it a bit, it was far too projective and harsh to
> start with) and get a small combo amp to be used with the JMP-1 as an
> extra preamp when needed. Just tested this forget what it was a tiny
> new Fender with a single 12", all tube job, which had an absolutely
> great, nice jazz round sound to it but not much headroom and it was
> good for just two sounds, jazz almost-driven and a bit mushy basic
> rock power guitar (but by then too loud even if just 15W). Besides, it
> cost like 700 or so - d**n pricey for a tiny backpacker like that!
> Probably would be good for recording, but don't like the boxy sound of
> the single cone when playing at home.
>
> So what are the options really? I've narrowed it down to three so far:
>
> Marshall 20/20 - pros are I hear it's pretty bright and articulate for
> a tube job, and nice size and power
> - cons are it's bloody expensive too and not much control AND I hear
> it needs a stereo cab so I'd have to mod my cab too first. Some people
> have also reported not liking it at all sonically and having changed
> to other types, even a valvestate version and been happier.
> (Valvestate rack units are not sold anymore it seems, might consider
> one otherwise)
>
> Velocity 100 - it's SS but apparently has rave reviews for its sound
> AND it's cheep & only single rack space
> - cons: no control whatsoever except volume, haven't heard one.
>
> Crate CP150 Powerblock - new 'kid' on the block - very interesting,
> small and has all the control I might need, but no idea how it sounds
> or how it's built - has had pretty mixed reviews. VERY cheap though.
> http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/search/detail/base_pid/487829?src=H
> C007 That page has some pretty promising sound clips.
>
> An older, used poweramp? (I still wonder if the peavey had bad tubes
> or something), but any suggestions?
>
> I'll be ordering one today or tomorrow, so if you have any
> suggestions, please haste!
> (I hate to wait any when I get the urge to get new gear I gotta get it
> like *yesterday or the day before that :-)
>
>
>
>
Well, I'm very surprised that the Peavey Classic didn't solve your quest.
It's probably the only 'cheaper' line of amps on the block. I had looked
at the TubeDriver stuff too, but, never really tried it.
I'm interested in the PowerBlock thing too...
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - DeeAa - 15:43 13-11-05
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - Jim Anable - 16:44 13-11-05
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DeeAa wrote:
> "The Chris" <cabell@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns970D675D011DF21740@129.250.170.84... />
>
>
>>Well, I'm very surprised that the Peavey Classic didn't solve your quest.
>>It's probably the only 'cheaper' line of amps on the block. I had looked
>>at the TubeDriver stuff too, but, never really tried it.
>>
>
> Well, maybe that specimen had too old tubes or something. At any rate, it
> was too loud.
>
>
>>I'm interested in the PowerBlock thing too...
>
>
> I actually ordered an amp today. It's a 1/2 watt tube head! A H&K Cream
> Machine that is.
> The seller said he'd used it with a 2x12 cab and it was plenty loud he said;
> definately enough for home&recording.
I own a Cream Machine. Don't expect headroom. Expect cranked Marshall
type of tone. The first thing to do is open it up. Many guys make the
mistake of using two 12AX7's. It needs a 12AU7 in the second hole, and
in some ways sounds best with TWO 12AU7. I have a theory. Most guys
that sell their Cream Machines are getting rid of them because they have
the WRONG tube in the output, and don't know any better. I'll be
interested to hear from you, when you open it.
These units have TOO much front end gain with 12AX7 in the first hole,
IMHO. When I use 12AX7, I keep the gain set very low, with master at
3:00 or higher. But when I use a 12AU7 in the first hole, I use higher
gain settings.
These units are COOL, despite some weaknesses.
They are stand alone 1W amps. It is NOT all tube circuitry. There are
some chips in the preamp for gain. I think it would've been better to
leave some of that out (heck, there's too much gain for my liking,
anyway). It uses both sides of the first tube as gain stages for the
preamp. One side of the 12AU7 is the driver, the other side is a single
ended output, into a TINY output transformer (because of the size of the
OPT and low power, do not expect chunk out of it).
When you pull the speaker cable, it automatically engages a dummy load
on the tiny output transformer. The signal now comes POST output
transformer, so you get the power tube distortion! You have several
options. You get to use it as either a true preamp, or as a pedal (an
effect with output at instrument level). It also has built in RedBox
4x12 emulation available, for direct to board or recording purposes, for
what that's worth (RedBox doesn't give a perfect 4x12 emulation, but it
does shape the tone). I always turn off the RedBox when I have post EQ.
It is HIGH QUALITY German construction, with plenty of inputs,
outputs, footswitch jack...
Drawbacks:
Lacks EQ. Tone is really quite good into a speaker, as an amp. Like I
said, it's voice like a hot Marshall. But in other uses it can benefit
from a separate EQ. When used as a pedal, your tone controls can do
this for you.
Tends to be noisy, but that's a factor of TOO MUCH GAIN on the front
end. Seriously, try two 12AU7 if you agree with me on this. It
benefits from a GOOD noise unit, as well as EQ.
> Should be quite customizable with various tweaks/mods and with using
> different tubes for different sounds.
>
> And you really get to crank the amp with those levels!
Yes, but it is single ended. Even so, the thing can sound (more or
less) like a cranked hot-rodded Marshall.
I did a lot of experimentation on tubes. I have LOTS of 12AU7's on
hand. Hands down, the best tone is coming from a strong old Tung Sol.
>
> Will be getting it tue I guess...we'll see.
>
>
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - The Chris - 17:22 13-11-05
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - DeeAa - 01:25 14-11-05
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"Jim Anable" <jim@seattle-attorney.com> wrote in message
news:11nfcsflti7tkaf@corp.supernews.com...
> mistake of using two 12AX7's. It needs a 12AU7 in the second hole, and in
> some ways sounds best with TWO 12AU7. I have a theory. Most guys that
> sell their Cream Machines are getting rid of them because they have the
> WRONG tube in the output, and don't know any better. I'll be interested
> to hear from you, when you open it.
>
Cool! I already had heard of this but not in so muc detail. I'll definately
open it up the miune I get it :-)
I've a few spare 12ax7's and I'll get a few 12AU7's as well and experiment.
> They are stand alone 1W amps. It is NOT all tube circuitry. There are
> some chips in the preamp for gain. I think it would've been better to
> leave some of that out (heck, there's too much gain for my liking,
> anyway). It uses both sides of the first tube as gain stages for the
> preamp. One side of the 12AU7 is the driver, the other side is a single
> ended output, into a TINY output transformer (because of the size of the
> OPT and low power, do not expect chunk out of it).
>
Yep - I heard also that there's a pretty simple solder job possinble to
eliminate the chips in it, but that will also make it a power amp only,
elimintating the dummy load too I guess. Will have to look into it further.
> effect with output at instrument level). It also has built in RedBox 4x12
> emulation available, for direct to board or recording purposes, for what
> that's worth (RedBox doesn't give a perfect 4x12 emulation, but it does
> shape the tone). I always turn off the RedBox when I have post EQ. It is
> HIGH QUALITY German construction, with plenty of inputs, outputs,
> footswitch jack...
>
Yeah! Sounds real good. I've already a few other speaker emulators in use;
so a new one might be good too.
> Lacks EQ. Tone is really quite good into a speaker, as an amp. Like I
> said, it's voice like a hot Marshall. But in other uses it can benefit
> from a separate EQ. When used as a pedal, your tone controls can do this
> for you.
>
> Tends to be noisy, but that's a factor of TOO MUCH GAIN on the front end.
> Seriously, try two 12AU7 if you agree with me on this. It benefits from a
> GOOD noise unit, as well as EQ.
>
OK, I definately trust you on this and will try those...I also have a HUSH
unit I've used in my rig.
So it'll be the JMP-1 with an SE-50 in the FX loop into a HUSH into the
cream machine into either a single 12" box or 4x10", I'll try both
naturally. And also gotta try direct to desk too.
>> Should be quite customizable with various tweaks/mods and with using
>> different tubes for different sounds.
>>
>> And you really get to crank the amp with those levels!
>
> Yes, but it is single ended. Even so, the thing can sound (more or less)
> like a cranked hot-rodded Marshall.
>
> I did a lot of experimentation on tubes. I have LOTS of 12AU7's on hand.
> Hands down, the best tone is coming from a strong old Tung Sol.
>
Hmm... I don't know if I can access those...there's probably jusy JJ's, GT's
and maybe Sovteks and Mesas available locally.
Cranked Marshall sounds VERY good to me :-)
Damn, now I can't wait to start experimenting!
I've an extra 12" Marshall speaker too, and I also thought of building a
suitable enclosure for it myself. I thought I'd first build a deeeeeep box
for it, and with a sliding back panel...then find the best place for the
back wall and shorten the box to size.
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - DeeAa - 01:26 14-11-05
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - The Chris - 07:12 14-11-05
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - DeeAa - 08:58 14-11-05
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Re: Time for another poweramp - which? - Jim Anable - 13:54 14-11-05
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The Chris wrote:
> "DeeAa" <deeaa@poist.mun.tast.kaik.dnainternet.net> wrote in
> news:4377a55c$0$30191$9b536df3@news.fv.fi:
>
>
>>"The Chris" <cabell@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns970D675D011DF21740@129.250.170.84... />
>>
>>
>>>Well, I'm very surprised that the Peavey Classic didn't solve your
>>>quest. It's probably the only 'cheaper' line of amps on the block. I
>>>had looked at the TubeDriver stuff too, but, never really tried it.
>>>
>>
>>Well, maybe that specimen had too old tubes or something. At any rate,
>>it was too loud.
>>
>>
>>>I'm interested in the PowerBlock thing too...
>>
>>I actually ordered an amp today. It's a 1/2 watt tube head! A H&K
>>Cream Machine that is.
>>The seller said he'd used it with a 2x12 cab and it was plenty loud he
>>said; definately enough for home&recording.
>>Should be quite customizable with various tweaks/mods and with using
>>different tubes for different sounds.
>>
>>And you really get to crank the amp with those levels!
>>
>>Will be getting it tue I guess...we'll see.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I had one of those - it's a preamp
It's a stand alone 1W amp, a preamp, a direct to board with speaker
emulation, and an effect with instrument level output.
> - there were some others in the line -
> The metal Shredder,
SS output section.
> and the Blues something....
EL84 output, HTF and expensive.
>
> It's from the mid 80's....It has 1 12ax7
AND 1 12AU7 as driver and single ended output tube, to tiny output
transformer. All the outputs are POST OPT, for power tube distortion.
> - typical of preamps... and it's
> only a half space big.
>
> Tell me if that solves your issue. I can't imagine it doing so. I used
> mine with a Peavey CS400 power amp.
I say "ain't gonna work" because not enough headroom. But he may still
love it, for what it DOES do.
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