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Guitar Discussions -> Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed
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Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed -
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I recently joined a cover band. Songs range from Skynard to
Metallica. It's a 2 guitar band, and the other guitarist is using a
digital rack mounted solid state unit into solid state power amp. I
have a 40 watt tube traynor amp (YCV40). I'm using a stock les paul,
and a fender strat with a dimarzio fast track in the bridge (which I
use 90% of the time with this guitar).
I have a bunch of effects, but use them very sparingly. Typically a
Boss BF-2 flanger is all I use.
I have found that at the volume we practice at (I set my amp between
4 and 6 typically for practices), I simply can't have the gain on my
amp maxed out - or I get uncontrolable feedback even when facing away
from the guitar, on the other side of the room. I've experimented with
this at home as well - away from PAs, etc. and have the same reaction.
Basically, using a gain setting of 7 or lower eliminates the feedback
entirely. Typically, I have the amp set with treble on 7, bass on 7 and
mids on 4 or 5. I get a really good sound this way for the typical rock
type song, but not enough gain for Metallica and similar tones (of
which 1/3 of the songs use). I've tried using various distortion pedals
(Boss DS-1 and Hyper Metal), but when I get a sound distorted to the
level I need - I get the same feedback problems, and lots of noise. The
other guitarist is not having this problem - even with ultra high gain
sounds.
In addition, there are several clean parts in various songs. I'm not
really getting a clean sound I like. Ideally, I'd like a JC 120 type
clean sound, but with my amp I'm getting a bit of distortion on the
clean settings. For some songs where a little dirt in the "clean" part
is okay this is fine, but there are plenty of intos, etc. that need
crystal clear clean, which so far I'm not able to get at the volume I
need.
I'm going to play out with this band in a week. I have a decent
enough sound by tweaking my amp - but not one I'm really happy with.
The guys in my band are okay with the sound I have - other than the
clean sound, which they have commented on for 1 song (which we have a
temporary work around for, in the form of the other guitarist).
What I really need is a set up that will do the following:
1) Ultra distorted scooped metal tone
2) Totally clean sound with chorus - like JC-120
3) Totally clean sound with Flanger
4) Moderatly distorted classic rock distortion
Ideally - I'd have a couple of variations of #4 and #1 for different
songs as well. Other effects might be useful too.
What I'd like to have is something that could have a pre-set for each
song we do - and would have various footswitches to activate different
effects and sounds for that particular song. I have messed around with
various units that do this - I tried out a BOSS GT-6 , and it was okay
- I might have to put some more time into checking it out.
One thing I have been looking at is the POD XT live - any one have
any experiance with it?
If I used one, I'd run it into a high powered solid state amp. The
other guitarist is getting really good sounds out of his rack mount
system on all our songs (it's some older model ART thing), and can
quickly change setups from song to song. I like my amp fine for what it
does, but I think it might be holding me back a bit as far as
versitility.
Any advice?
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed - RichCI - 12:06 07-11-05
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housemouse@klassmaster.com wrote:
> I recently joined a cover band. Songs range from Skynard to
> Metallica. It's a 2 guitar band, and the other guitarist is using a
> digital rack mounted solid state unit into solid state power amp. I
> have a 40 watt tube traynor amp (YCV40). I'm using a stock les paul,
> and a fender strat with a dimarzio fast track in the bridge (which I
> use 90% of the time with this guitar).
> I have a bunch of effects, but use them very sparingly. Typically a
> Boss BF-2 flanger is all I use.
>
> I have found that at the volume we practice at (I set my amp between
> 4 and 6 typically for practices), I simply can't have the gain on my
> amp maxed out - or I get uncontrolable feedback even when facing away
> from the guitar, on the other side of the room. I've experimented with
> this at home as well - away from PAs, etc. and have the same reaction.
> Basically, using a gain setting of 7 or lower eliminates the feedback
> entirely. Typically, I have the amp set with treble on 7, bass on 7 and
> mids on 4 or 5. I get a really good sound this way for the typical rock
> type song, but not enough gain for Metallica and similar tones (of
> which 1/3 of the songs use). I've tried using various distortion pedals
> (Boss DS-1 and Hyper Metal), but when I get a sound distorted to the
> level I need - I get the same feedback problems, and lots of noise. The
> other guitarist is not having this problem - even with ultra high gain
> sounds.
>
> In addition, there are several clean parts in various songs. I'm not
> really getting a clean sound I like. Ideally, I'd like a JC 120 type
> clean sound, but with my amp I'm getting a bit of distortion on the
> clean settings. For some songs where a little dirt in the "clean" part
> is okay this is fine, but there are plenty of intos, etc. that need
> crystal clear clean, which so far I'm not able to get at the volume I
> need.
>
> I'm going to play out with this band in a week. I have a decent
> enough sound by tweaking my amp - but not one I'm really happy with.
> The guys in my band are okay with the sound I have - other than the
> clean sound, which they have commented on for 1 song (which we have a
> temporary work around for, in the form of the other guitarist).
>
> What I really need is a set up that will do the following:
>
> 1) Ultra distorted scooped metal tone
> 2) Totally clean sound with chorus - like JC-120
> 3) Totally clean sound with Flanger
> 4) Moderatly distorted classic rock distortion
>
> Ideally - I'd have a couple of variations of #4 and #1 for different
> songs as well. Other effects might be useful too.
>
> What I'd like to have is something that could have a pre-set for each
> song we do - and would have various footswitches to activate different
> effects and sounds for that particular song. I have messed around with
> various units that do this - I tried out a BOSS GT-6 , and it was okay
> - I might have to put some more time into checking it out.
>
> One thing I have been looking at is the POD XT live - any one have
> any experiance with it?
> If I used one, I'd run it into a high powered solid state amp. The
> other guitarist is getting really good sounds out of his rack mount
> system on all our songs (it's some older model ART thing), and can
> quickly change setups from song to song. I like my amp fine for what it
> does, but I think it might be holding me back a bit as far as
> versitility.
>
> Any advice?
One less expensive option you might consider is getting a noise gate.
My guess is that the other player with the rack system probably has one
built into his multieffects processor and that's how he's not getting
all the noise and feedback on the heavy metal stuff. A gate can help
make the sticatto stuff sound more precise. Alternatively, you can
always turn down the volume knob on your guitar or go with a volume
pedal to help control the noise and feedback.
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed - Jdavyd Williams - 12:17 07-11-05
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RichCI wrote:
> Alternatively, you can
> always turn down the volume knob on your guitar or go with a volume
> pedal to help control the noise and feedback.
>
This is excellent advice - i know someone with that exact problem and
turning the volume knob down a hair cleared it right up.
as far as a versatile live setup is concerned, i was in that boat
recently as well. i went with Tech 21, and i recommend that anyone
looking for a lot of sounds in a small package do the same.
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed - stratmandoo - 12:20 07-11-05
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I am getting really great sounds on a wide range of settings from my
Roland VG-88, which I have had for about three months now. I'm sure
I'll get pounded mercilessly by the purists for this post, which I am
not looking forward to.
I also purchased the Roland-ready Fender strat (which works like a
regular strat when you are plugged into the 1/4" instrument plug). The
action on it was really nice when I demoed the VG-88 and I wanted a
ready-to-go set up. You can put the pickup and controls on any guitar
if you don't want to buy the Roland ready models.
I play it through a Fender Cyber-Twin with the cleanest setting I can
get.
I used to have three guitars on stage, an acoustic (for some of the
country tunes), a Les Paul (for the Allman/Marshall Tucker lead) and a
Strat (for Clapton/Stevie/Dire Straits stuff). What a total pain in the
@#% switching guitars all the time. This allows me to have one guitar
on stage and achieve a VERY close emulation of the sounds that I
need... all neatly arranged and named on each pedal in the order I need
them.
The amazing thing about this rig is that it is extremely quiet in
virtually every setting. No loud buzz when the gain is set on FAT or
the distortion is strong.
The clean is really clean. Dead quiet.
I own several fine guitars... and I record a lot of tracks (mostly
classic rock). I would challenge any average joe (and most accomplished
players) to tell me what guitar I'm playing on any given tune.
So, for the vertsatility, I don't know if you can beat it. It takes
quite a while to set up to your specific needs. I did the setup by
using my LP and strat and acoustic to play notes, chords, and lead runs
and then adjust all the settings accordingly. You can rename your
settings to match the songlist or whatever you desire.I was truley
amazed. Until I found this, I had purchased virtually every pedal on
the market. It is also why I had the Cyber-twin...
The ready rigged guitar and Vg-88 will set you back a couple of K, or
the VG and pick-up, which you would mount to your guitar of choice,
will be around 1K.
I noticed on that Dangerous Dan Tolar appears to be playing a roland
rigged red Strat on the HD TV concert with Dicky Betts at the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame (I think it was Tivoed from HDNet). The strat has a
white pickguard with a white after-market pickup mounted right next to
the bridge. If its good enough to back up Dicky I think its good enough
fo me...
Well, all the purists can post away!!! I have thick skin.
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed -
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RichCI wrote:
> One less expensive option you might consider is getting a noise gate.
> My guess is that the other player with the rack system probably has one
> built into his multieffects processor and that's how he's not getting
> all the noise and feedback on the heavy metal stuff. A gate can help
> make the sticatto stuff sound more precise. Alternatively, you can
> always turn down the volume knob on your guitar or go with a volume
> pedal to help control the noise and feedback.
Yes, the other player has a noise gate built into his setup. Because of
this, I've priced some noisegates. The cheapest one I've seen was $100,
which isn't much - but for an extra $200 or $300 I could get one of the
multi-units that includes one, and do away with my other pedals and
stuff.
Sure - I mess with my knobs a bit to clean up my sound - and it does
work a bit. The problem is, obviously, the volume decreases. What I was
is to be able to switch from clean to dirty with no volume drop. Pretty
much any time I need a clean sound, I'm having some sort of effect on
the sound, like a chorus or flanger - and effect that isn't on
normally. So switching channels, switching on the effect, and fiddling
with my volume knob all at once for a 10 second clean part - then doing
it all in reverse to go back to the normal distorted part is a bit
much. I guess I could switch pickups - with each pickup set to a
different volume - but still, it's a lot of fiddling.
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed -
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stratmandoo wrote:
> I am getting really great sounds on a wide range of settings from my
> Roland VG-88, which I have had for about three months now. I'm sure
> I'll get pounded mercilessly by the purists for this post, which I am
> not looking forward to.
>
> I also purchased the Roland-ready Fender strat (which works like a
> regular strat when you are plugged into the 1/4" instrument plug). The
> action on it was really nice when I demoed the VG-88 and I wanted a
> ready-to-go set up. You can put the pickup and controls on any guitar
> if you don't want to buy the Roland ready models.
Cool - I've played one of the roland things quite a bit in the past (I
think it was a GR-33
or something like that). Are their any tracking issues with the VG-88?
How do you think it compares to the variax/ POD XT LIVE combo?
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed - Jim Anable - 15:07 07-11-05
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housemouse@klassmaster.com wrote:
> RichCI wrote:
>
>>One less expensive option you might consider is getting a noise gate.
>>My guess is that the other player with the rack system probably has one
>>built into his multieffects processor and that's how he's not getting
>>all the noise and feedback on the heavy metal stuff. A gate can help
>>make the sticatto stuff sound more precise. Alternatively, you can
>>always turn down the volume knob on your guitar or go with a volume
>>pedal to help control the noise and feedback.
>
>
> Yes, the other player has a noise gate built into his setup. Because of
> this, I've priced some noisegates. The cheapest one I've seen was $100,
> which isn't much - but for an extra $200 or $300 I could get one of the
> multi-units that includes one, and do away with my other pedals and
> stuff.
Look for a Rocktron Hush "Guitar Silencer." It is best, because it's
built for guitar and gives the user much more control over current models.
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed - stratmandoo - 15:13 07-11-05
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housemouse@klassmaster.com wrote:
>
> Cool - I've played one of the roland things quite a bit in the past (I
> think it was a GR-33
> or something like that). Are their any tracking issues with the VG-88?
>
> How do you think it compares to the variax/ POD XT LIVE combo?
Soundwise, I can compare it (my VG-88) to a guy that I hear quite often
playing a POD (I don't know what model)... and I it seems to me that I
can do anything the POD will do with as good of sound. Put another way:
I haven't heard the POD do anything that I can't do.
I heard this guy playing the POD each week in a very high quality live
stage mix (which I actually thought was the Roland VG-88 that I had
demoed at last year's guitar show in Dallas)... and that was what got
me interested in the whole idea to begin with. He gets some very clean
and realistic sounds with the POD, particularly acoustic guitar and 12
string acoustic, and I was really impressed. So I went out and redemoed
the Roland that I ended up with. I later found out that the guy I was
listening to was using a Pod.
It is my understanding that the predecessor of the VG-88 (Roland's
VG-8) had tracking problems that apparently (from what the sales guys
said) do not exist with the VG-88. The VG-8 also had a wider array of
sampled instrument voices, but the 88 has only two voices other than
the hundreds of guitar sounds that you can achieve, organ and violin. I
actually use the violin sound on a couple of country tunes that we do.
People have come up to me after a performance amazed by it... I guess
because they are so surprized when they hear a violin coming out of a
Strat!!!
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed - Guncho - 15:14 07-11-05
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housemouse@klassmaster.com wrote:
> RichCI wrote:
> > One less expensive option you might consider is getting a noise gate.
> > My guess is that the other player with the rack system probably has one
> > built into his multieffects processor and that's how he's not getting
> > all the noise and feedback on the heavy metal stuff. A gate can help
> > make the sticatto stuff sound more precise. Alternatively, you can
> > always turn down the volume knob on your guitar or go with a volume
> > pedal to help control the noise and feedback.
>
> Yes, the other player has a noise gate built into his setup. Because of
> this, I've priced some noisegates. The cheapest one I've seen was $100,
> which isn't much - but for an extra $200 or $300 I could get one of the
> multi-units that includes one, and do away with my other pedals and
> stuff.
>
> Sure - I mess with my knobs a bit to clean up my sound - and it does
> work a bit. The problem is, obviously, the volume decreases. What I was
> is to be able to switch from clean to dirty with no volume drop. Pretty
> much any time I need a clean sound, I'm having some sort of effect on
> the sound, like a chorus or flanger - and effect that isn't on
> normally. So switching channels, switching on the effect, and fiddling
> with my volume knob all at once for a 10 second clean part - then doing
> it all in reverse to go back to the normal distorted part is a bit
> much. I guess I could switch pickups - with each pickup set to a
> different volume - but still, it's a lot of fiddling.
What pro bands do is to have multiple amps that they switch between for
clean and dirty sounds. Obviously this is expensive and a lot to lug
around.
While you certainly will get versatility out the wazoo with a modelling
amp you will also have to settle for so-so sound.
If you are willing to compromise a little, you can get pretty much all
of the sounds you need out of one tube amp and some pedals.
You will need your amp, the footswitch that comes with it, a Volume
pedal, a Chorus pedal and a Flanger pedal.
Try setting the amp like this :crank the clean channel to where you get
classic rock overdrive. Set the dirty channel to whatever metal sound
you like but don't turn the gain up to where the amp squeals like a
pig.
1 Ultra distorted scooped metal tone - Dirty channel
2 Clean + Chorus - Clean channel w Volume pedal backed off to taste +
Chorus pedal
3 Clean + Flanger - Clean channel w Volume pedal backed off to taste +
Flanger pedal
4 Classic Rock overdrive - Clean channel w Volume pedal on full
If your amp squeals to much for metal you might need say a Metal Zone
pedal.
Chris
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Re: Need advice - moderately versatile live setup needed -
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Guncho wrote:
>
> What pro bands do is to have multiple amps that they switch between for
> clean and dirty sounds. Obviously this is expensive and a lot to lug
> around.
I've actually considered this. I have a few other amps, but none I like
as well for a "classic" sound as the traynor. I have a couple I can
certainly get a very clean clean sound out of.
>
> While you certainly will get versatility out the wazoo with a modelling
> amp you will also have to settle for so-so sound.
Is that true (the so-so bit)? The other guy in my band sounds as good
or better with rack mounted modeling stuff - for most of the sounds,
anyways. Seriously, he is getting a very good sound - especially on the
high gain and clean stuff.
>
> If you are willing to compromise a little, you can get pretty much all
> of the sounds you need out of one tube amp and some pedals.
>
> You will need your amp, the footswitch that comes with it, a Volume
> pedal, a Chorus pedal and a Flanger pedal.
>
> Try setting the amp like this :crank the clean channel to where you get
> classic rock overdrive. Set the dirty channel to whatever metal sound
> you like but don't turn the gain up to where the amp squeals like a
> pig.
>
> 1 Ultra distorted scooped metal tone - Dirty channel
Like I said - uncontrolable feedback when I have the gain up to the
point I want it. If I back off so the gain is at 7 I get the classic
rock tone I'm after. Any more gain than that, the amp feedsback pretty
much constantly.
>
> 2 Clean + Chorus - Clean channel w Volume pedal backed off to taste +
> Chorus pedal
Well, I've tried this with my volume knob - and I had to get the volume
pretty low to be perfectly clean. It's a big volume change. Wouldn't a
volume pedal do the same as my volume knob?
>
> 3 Clean + Flanger - Clean channel w Volume pedal backed off to taste +
> Flanger pedal
Same as above.
>
> 4 Classic Rock overdrive - Clean channel w Volume pedal on full
To get the clean channel to drive to the point I'd want it at for this
sound, the clean channel would have to be maxed. Which would make a big
volume jump between songs.
To clarify what I mean by "classic rock" distortion - I sort of mean
something that ranges from Early Black Sabbath to Skynard - leaning
more to the Sabbath end of things. I'm not talking about an early The
Who type sound or anything.
>
> If your amp squeals to much for metal you might need say a Metal Zone
> pedal.
Tried the Boss hyper Metal - which is a similar type of pedal - when I
got the gain to the point I wanted it - it was very noisy and fed back.
Not a lot different from the amp being set to maximium gain.
Thanks for the advice, but I've already tried pretty much what you are
suggesting (or what I think is similar). I'm trying to get a consistant
volume level for everything.
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